Chris: Right. So, it really — ostensibly shouldn’t even be there except for the fact that they’ve tied the two together which is pretty exciting. By the way, we’re running Google Boost. I sent another e-mail because sometimes when you search for terms — well, actually when you search for Ewebstyle.com at least in the Houston area, in the Pay-Per-Click because of Google Boost SEO there’s our name. And I’m like “Well, we’re in the first position organically.” So I sent them an e-mail I’m like, “I don’t want to pay if somebody clicks, when they’re obviously searching for us. That’s crazy. You know it’s a waste of money.” And they’re argument was “Well, we think it enhances branding.” I’m like “Well, I don’t need branding for my own name.” Paul: Yeah. Thank you. [Laughs] Chris: It’s my own — they know my name. Paul: We think — what they’re really saying is, “We think it increases the chances of someone clicking on it and you’re paying us money for that.” Chris: Yeah. I was a little disappointed. It was mostly canned and the response, and then that part where like “Oh, we think it helps you in branding.” I’m like, “It’s my dollars. I’m telling you I don’t want to spend them on that.” So, I haven’t written back on that one yet. But I will ‘cause it’s a little frustrating. I know how Matt Cutts felt when he was in his confrontation with Bing. By the way, there’s some video Mattcutts.com, it’s a 40-minute video, it’s really good. I want to talk about the details here so you don’t have to go watch it ‘cause it is 40 minutes. You know Microsoft recently — excuse me, Google recently accused Bing of copying Google’s results. And then Bing’s retort is “Well, we’re not copying your results. We’re just monitoring our listeners.” I had another page. Here we go. Paul: We’re not copying it. We’re duplicating it. Chris: Yeah. Paul: Big difference. Chris: We’re monitoring our users and by — our users they actually mean “IE,” not Bing. ‘Cause remember Bing doesn’t have — well, you can say Bing I guess, IE is Bing’s browser and so Chrome has theirs. Basically, there’s a — when you’re installing IE8 there is a screen where you either turn on suggested sites and it goes, “Do you want to discover websites you might like based on websites you visited?” And apparently when you answer “yes” to this — you tell me Paul ‘cause I’m not sure. If you answer “yes” to this would you believe that now Bing is actually — MSN is actually collecting data when you’re surfing on Google? Paul: My first thought would be, I’d be like, “Oh, I wouldn’t think so.” Now, that I really think into it well — Chris: Let’s read it again. “Do you want to discover websites you might like based on websites you visited?” Paul: Oh, no. I’m thinking no. Chris: They’re kind of visiting. Paul: Well, they know what else is out there and he might like this. I’m just thinking they’re being helpful. Chris: It doesn’t say, “Would you like to share your data with Bing so as to increase the value of the Bing search engine?” I mean this is really disingenuous and it was kind of — in my opinion, it was kind of ridiculous when Bing — I can’t remember the guy, one of the lead guys at Bing, he was up there saying “Oh, no. I mean you guys used your click data, why can’t we use our click data?” And Matt Cutts said specifically, “I can promise you at no point do we — and even if somebody is in Chrome using Bing, at no point do we use what they click on Bing in our search results.” And at the end of the day the whole trick was — and I think it was really interesting how Google actually found out. Let me take a step back. How Google actually found out that Bing was doing this. They noticed that in search results on Bing of misspellings, it was actually displaying pretty much the same results as Google. The only thing is this Bing doesn’t do spelling correction. Paul: Oh, like Google does. Chris: Google does. Google says, “Oh, we think you meant this. And so we’re going to show this, click here if you want to see the other.” So, a misspelled word, unless you’re doing spell correction, there’s no way the same results would come up. And so why for misspellings was Bing displaying the same thing as Google, so then Google actually made like a dysfunctional search with lots of characters and numbers and letters or whatever and they gave bogus result. Paul: Okay. Chris: And then they had their employees go home, search on Bing and click the result. So, now because they’re using IE, they’re searching — not on Bing, on Google. They’re searching on Google and then clicking the one result. Now, Bing, MSN, IE is sharing that data with Bing and saying, “Hey! Users of Google who happen to search for this ended up clicking on this. You might want to show that next time.” I mean it’s a roundabout way but the results are the same. Paul: It’s the exact same thing. Chris: You’re copying Google’s results. And it was really funny in that article and I actually commented on Matt Cutts on his blog at the bottom and I said, “It’s really interesting because Bing was insisting that it’s Google’s responsibility to clean up spam.” And my comment was, “Ostensibly so that Bing could show Google’s better results to Bing users.” [Laughs] Paul: I mean I don’t — Chris: Why do you have to clean it up? Paul: Something tells me that there was a lawyer in that conference — at Bing, when they were deciding to do that. They were like, “Okay. How much can we really get away with?” Chris: And then here’s an article from Jared Newman, “Google, please stop whining about Bing and here’s why.” And I don’t — I mean there’s — I’m sorry Jared Newman and he’s from PC World. There’s not a valid point in here. I mean I do understand like getting your title and having it right, so people can you know — and Google — you know one thing that I can say, I do understand the whining perspective, Matt Cutts is very passionate about search engine results. And if somebody is going to come out and say, “We’re not stealing.” And it is so blatantly obvious that you are. I mean maybe you’re doing it in a roundabout way but the end result is that you’re displaying results that are on Google. And Bing was like “Oh, why are spending time on this?”And “Is this worth your effort?” And was like “You know, this is all veiled insults.” Right? You’re copying our results. Paul: Yeah, and Google say, “Why don’t you just do the work yourself and come out with the best results? Because that how we became popular.” [Laughs] Chris: By the way, you get — the only way is Google is going to be pushed to get better is not if you’re copying them. If it’s you’re finding your own algorithms and processes that make it better than them and then Google is going to have to do the same thing. So, Bing is actually doing a disservice to search engines in general saying, “You know what? What they’re saying is the best you could possibly do is Google? And we’re going to try and achieve that.” Paul: Yes, because we can’t do any better. We can’t get any more relevant search results, which is kind of like admitting defeat so… [Laughs] Chris: All right. And by the way in my comment I was like, “It brings the whole new meaning to the word “Bing who?” Remember we we’re like “Bing Hoo!” Now it’s like “Bing who?” Paul: Yeah, that sucks. Chris: Why don’t you just use Google ‘cause you’re going to get the same results ‘cause they’re copying from Google? Paul: You know I use Google — personally I try to — you know, when we’re working, I’m trying to look at every different search engine and browser. But personally I use Google for everything because they have the most relevant search results so… Hey, why don’t you just do it the right way? Chris: Was I on a rant there? That’s felt good, that felt really good. Let’s see. I think I got all of this stuff. Did you want to throw out a teaser? Paul: Yes. Well, before I get there I want to throw out something again, about the — that’s kind of related to the algorithm change that happened back in October. Basically, one of the other things that happened is that Google is giving more weight to user generated content sites. And all the different things — I would say, I’m speaking with someone earlier — later last week about what’s affected in the — Chris: Earlier or later? Paul: Yeah. [Laughs] Both. Chris: Later part of last week? Okay. Paul: Yeah, like kind of what you need to do or use with a PPC company, we just kind of — you know we’re sharing information talking this and that. And he was saying, “You know this is what you need to do. Basically you have to have this and that, and that, and that.” And he was saying, “Hey, Google is giving more weight to user generated content,” which is to me a fancy way of saying social media, or blogs, or things like that. And to me — this is another point as to why you know, the traditional SEO, the old-school way of doing things — you know, we didn’t even talk about social media when we first started this podcast two years ago so… Chris: It didn’t even — I think barely. Well, certainly it did in Myspace. Paul: I think I’ve been on Facebook for like three days or something. By the time we started the podcast. So, that’s another change in how — so not only do you — you know, if you’re doing SEO now and you want to get on that first page or maybe you’re there and you want to stay there because I believe this year we’ll see more changes come through. You need to be doing everything. You need to have the traditional SEO, the content, the links, the right keywords on your website. But now you have to have a Local Places Listing. It has to be optimized, go back to podcast number blah, blah, blah and figure out and listen to that. So you need to do — you know, local — you basically need to be doing local SEO if that makes any sense. You need to be using user generated content. If you have a blog, use it. Chris: You need to be blogging. Paul: Thank you. Social media, you need to use it. Chris: You need to be Facebooking. Paul: Thank you. Video, you need to be doing that as well. Chris: You need to be videoing. Paul: Videoing, yeah. I believe that you know — and there was an article I want to say that you handed me about how videos becoming just more and more important. And that was part of the algorithm change, video is more important. You need to have videos on your site. You need to — you can’t be — well, obviously we talked about don’t use content farms at all and you need to be doing mobile as well. So these are all — you know, if you’re not on the first page or you’re not where you want to be. You need to be doing all of these. If you are on the first page, you still need to be doing all of this because there’s no guarantee that you’ll be there tomorrow, and like we talk a lot and we’ll say, “Hey! Be ahead of the game.” Well, you know that there’s more content changes that are coming, be ahead of the game so when it does — when it does happen, you are ready — you’re ready to go. You’ve your mobile and you’ve got your mobile app, you got your Facebook, you got this, you got that. Chris: Well, Windows algorithmic changes happen and continue to happen. Those changes actually push your website up not down. Paul: Yes, exactly. And a lot of our listeners send us links, “Hey, check this out. I’m doing this.” And I can say one guy — and I always shoutout to this guy, Dean. Dean Calhoun of Affygility man, he’s always — this dude is on the ball. He’s got you know the mobile app, he’s got this, he’s got that so I’m like, “Wow!” Chris: In an industry where the sexiness is not the selling point. I mean he’s an environmental health and safety. Paul: Environmental health and safety. Chris: So, the app is actually about the value that the app brings, it’s not about “Oh, let’s be sexy and have an app with the video in it or something.” So, it’s pretty cool. Paul: I guess a better title than “Traditional SEO is not enough,” is just be ahead of the game. You know watch everything that’s happening and try to be a step ahead of all of your competitors in doing that so… And I think that is it. Now, we’re going to talk a little bit about mobile. I’m going to give you one snippet for the next podcast. Chris: All right. Let’s hold that snippet. Paul: Okay. Chris: All right. Let’s bring out our third top position snatcher. Would that be the third musketeer of the — Paul: Yeah. [Laughs] Chris: I don’t think there’s probably some creative way to say that, which he would come up with ‘cause he’s also known as the SEO Rapper. Paul: There you go. Chris: So, he certainly would be able to put that phraseology together and let’s bring him out. Paul: The B.A. Baracus of the A-team of SEO. Chris: Yeah, yeah. Paul: Charles Lewis. [Laughter] Chris: Come on out, Chuck. Chuck: B.A. Baracus. Paul: That’s what’s up. Chuck: That’s the first. Chris: All right. Paul came out with that. All right, did we get everything right? Did we miss anything in what we covered so far? I know you’re — Chuck: Oh, you know I was back there listening and laughing, you guys are tripping. Yeah, for the most part you did. I did want to tell everybody, if you go into South by South West, Monday 12:30. I think it’s at the Hilton. I think there’s going to be follow up to the video. Chris: To the video? Chuck: Yeah, with Danny Sullivan. I believe he’s going to kind of manage it. Chris: Debate? Chuck: Yeah. They got the guy Dwayne. He’s one of the engineers at Bing and Matt is going to be there as well, and so — Chris: It will be like “Ding!” Round two. Paul: It’s going to be — you know, the Celebrity Deathmatch on MTV? Chris: Yeah. Chuck: Yeah. Paul: That’s what it’s going to be. [Laughter] Chuck: If you’re going to South by South West make it your business to be there. Chris: And take a Parka ‘cause there’s going to be blood everywhere. [Laughter] Paul: Yeah. Here’s my snippet. Chris: Wait, wait. So, let’s save that for last. This guy is our little teaser. You’ve got — I know you had a shoutout that you want to give like a huge one. Chuck: Okay, a couple of shoutouts. Well, I had a couple of shoutouts. First shoutout to — and like these shoutouts come with questions as well, from Twitter. A shoutout to Dave, that’s Dave2511, his question was, “How do you choose which keywords to optimize for?” Chris: That’s a good question. I mean that’s important and we’ve got a podcast that like you know, what do we say? Like at real estate is location, location, location. SEO is keywords, keywords, keywords. If you’re optimizing for the wrong keywords, you’re wasting your time. Chuck: And so my quick answer to that Dave would be research. You know one of the things we do here is we use our data from Pay-Per-Click to kind of determine which key-phrases will be best suited for optimization. And so that along with your typical Google results you know, which key-phrases bring the most traffic using different external tools and whatnot. And then if they bring the most traffic you search on the people who on your target tend to search and will use those phrases and they’re getting good data in PPC, I would probably optimize for that phrase.