How can website frames affect Search Engine Placement?

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Thirty-four SEO Podcast Oct. 31st 2009. Thirdpage of Transcription

Chris: We need some images of that on the website. All right. So the next thing that’s in this list, again, we did back links, quality site content, good title tags, the next is no Java Script for content.

Paul: Yeah. What does that mean? I know every website’s got Java Script.

Chris: Yes.

Paul: Or just about–

Chris:Yeah, a lot of them have Java Script.Really what it’s looking at is a couple of there are some levels of Java Script.Java Script is usually used for the navigation buttons, all right.Like in (22:36), I mean it’s used for all sorts of things on a very classic website that uses Java Script, there are it uses Java Script for the buttons.And kind of the point here is that Google can’t follow some Java Script, all right.So you may have these nice buttons.They–buttons may actually be text but you’ve done some unique things with Java Script so the text changes color or the website sings or whatever it does as their scrolling over the particular links, if that’s all done with Java Script, there’s the potential that Google can’t actually traverse your website.

Paul:Okay.It’s the best to not have Java Script on your navigation?

Chris: No. It’s actually good to have Java Script because it can do some very fancy things. So that’s actually a good thing. What you want to do and what we often end up doing with our clients is at the bottom of their website, we’ll kind of a link pyramid.

Paul: Yeah. Okay.

Chris: What we call a link pyramid. So you’ve just got a–there’s the actual hardcore. And it does a couple of things. If your–you know, often the navigation links are images. So if they’re images, what does Google do with images?

Paul:Google’s not going to read that ‘cause it’s–that’s a picture.

Chris:It doesn’t see text, right?So if the image is, you know, I don’t know, we’ll say of a plumber in Houston.So it’s got the Houston skyline in a butt crack, right, so it’s a plumber in Houston.

Paul:‘Cause that’s his plumber.

Chris:Nothing says plumber like butt crack.You could quote me on that.

Paul:I will.As a matter of fact, I will.

Chris: Then, you know, then you’re not–Google just, you know, it’s images it clicks, it goes to the next page, Google may or may not be able to get there, you know, if it didn’t have Java Script you could get there, obviously. If it does have Java Script, depending on, you know, how intricate it is, it can or can’t get there. But at the end of the day, you’re not using the keywords that you’d like to use to get people to that webpage, so at the bottom, you would say, you know, Houston plumber.

Paul: Okay.

Chris:And link that to the details of your, you know, the Houston plumber details page.

Paul:What about having–let’s say a person has Java Script on their navigation buttons, what about having a site map, would that also kind of do the same thing?

Chris: You also, okay, so there’s, yes, absolutely you want to have a site map. And the thing I was just talking about is a value that a site map doesn’t provide.

Paul: Okay.

Chris:Right?So if the home page which has a certain PR ranking, is linking to your plumber Houston page, then there are some Google juice that flows there.If you don’t have that link and it’s just an image or it’s just Java Script that Google can’t follow, then it just links there.So there’s no Google–the thing that links to the page doesn’t indicate to Google what should be at the end of that page.

Paul: Of the next page?

Chris:Right?And a site map, let’s say it’s Java Script that Google can’t follow, the site map would make Google aware of that page, but you’re losing the opportunity to link to that page with relevant keywords.


Chris: Right?

Paul: So how can–now how can I check if my–if that is happening to my website?

Chris: If you’ve got Java Script, and that’s your navigation, then, really what you want to do is just, well, the
re’s two ways actually.You want to add the pyramid anyway.

Paul: Okay.

Chris: Right. It’s at the bottom. You want to make sure it’s visible. You definitely do not want to hide it because that’s hidden text, it can be considered Black Hat. It’s a small thing. It’s inobtrusive, unobtrusive. And then the other thing–the other way that you can find out, ‘cause that’s a great question, is you can actually, remember we talked about the links text browser?

Paul: Yes.

Chris: A couple of podcasts ago, we talked about the link text browser and what

that’ll do is it’ll allow you to view the website as a text browser. And incidentally, a Google robot or any of the search engine bots–

Paul: Is going to pick up all that text.

Chris:View it like a text browser.

Paul: Okay.

Chris: Right. They see your website only like a text browser. It’s not anymore talented or complicated than that. So if you can see the links in your text browser, then Google will probably be able to follow them.

Paul:And then if you can’t pull it up, I’d say just go–even if you still can’t figure it out, it would be a good idea just for everyone to have a site map to have the text links towards the bottom of their site.

Chris: Yes. Absolutely.

Paul: So if you want to look at it, go look at the e-webstyle home page. We have one at the bottom.

Chris: Yeah.

Paul: So if you want to look at, okay, what should I do?

Chris: What is that link pyramid that we’re talking about?

Paul:Take a look at ours.

Chris: You can go to e-webstyle. And in short order, you probably will be able to go to tosm ‘cause we just got them for SEO so–

Paul: So now we got to put that up there.

Chris:So that’s something (27:19).Exactly.

Paul:As I was going to say I know we’re going to get an email.Yeah, well, you going to have that on the tosm website.

Chris:You’re just driving us, what’s up?All right.So the next thing on the list here is no frames.

Paul:I don’t see that very often anymore.

Chris: No.

Paul:But I used to see it a lot and they used to be really, really annoying.

Chris:Yeah, it was.Frames, I’ve done a–I did one website.Yes.And it’s really hard to get it right, all right.You know, to make sure the navigation flows properly because it’s, you know, do I want this page as–it is a non-trivial to get good frames to work.And you spend all that time and effort on frames.And at the end of the day, Google has a hard time figuring out what’s going on.

Paul: ‘Cause you just don’t have them?

Chris:Yeah. Don’t.Do not use frames.Don’t bother.Now, the caveat to that is there’s a thing called iframe, you can use an iframe.There’s some value in that.And sometimes, you know, if you’re aware of the challenges that the frame can cost the search engines and you know how to get around those, you know, maybe you have a small little link to a non-frame website, maybe you’ve, you know, whatever it may be, if you know how to get around that issue, then all you–then go ahead and make your frames ‘cause maybe there are some things that you can do on a frame that’s pretty nice.

In reality, you should be able to do those things without frames.

Paul:Well, explain what a frame is.So I mean ‘cause I know what a frame is.If I see a website that’s framed, I can instantly tell.But I’m not sure if I can actually explain it.

Chris: Yeah, wow. Well, so if you’re looking at a frame, a framed website, and you actually see a line, say, maybe you see a navigation bar across the top and you see a dividing line that’s kind of like looks like a browser has created the dividing line between the top and the bottom or the left and the right, that’s a frame website probably. All right. And then you can end up having scroll bars so you could have maybe you’ve got navigation over on the left and you’ve got a scroll bar because you’ve got so many navigation links.

Paul:That’s exactly how I’ve seen it.

Chris:And there’s a scroll bar right in the middle so you can go down and see everything.That is a–that’s a frame, all right.

Paul: Okay.

Chris: That’s one of the ways you know the frames. Now, in terms of programming, a frame is actually really a collection of independent websites. So that’s one of the reasons that Google has a hard time with it is because the websites are actually it’s independent–

Paul: It’s like two websites in one kind of–

Chris: Or three or four, depending on how many frames you have. So each–

Paul: If I go to Google, here’s what I think of a frame. So if I go to Google and I search for images. I don’t know, like Google Paul Hanson and at the top I click images. And then you get a list of images and then if you click on one of those images, I do this a lot for like videos and images, it pulls up an image of–it pulls up a little bitty the thumbnail of that image and then below that is there’s like an article where that image was–

Chris: Was actually

Paul:And there’s a scroll bar like the image at the top, it might be one inch.

Chris: Yup.

Paul:And there’s a scroll bar that let you go up and down.And then below where the article is there’s another scroll bar to go down read the article.That’s what I think of a frame site.That’s what I think of because I look for, you know, I’m always looking at images.

Chris: That’s right. So I just typed in ‘dog pictures’ in Google. And then when the results come up, I click images. And then we’ll just click one of those. We click this, “Oh, isn’t he cute?”

Paul: Little cute puppy looking thing.

Chris:Yeah, we’ll click in and then, yup.And in fact, Google even provides a thing that says, “Remove frame.”So you can actually just visit that website and look at that website.So, yeah, that’s a great example of what a frame is.Don’t do it.

It really is that simple.And as that applies to Texas Orthopaedics here, we don’t have frames.

Paul:Yeah.No frames.No frame.Me no likey framey.

Chris:Framey no good.

Paul:Framing me, no likey.

Chris:And actually, we’ve talked about some of these but our time has run out.So we’ve got two more things that we need to discuss.They’re pretty simple but we’ll save them for next time.That is no hidden text and duplicate text.We could almost stop at that but we’ll pick it up and talk about some more details about why not to have hidden text.And, you know, some more ramifications of duplicate text.

So what a great podcast.Make sure you go to iTunes and fill out a review please.Also keep those questions coming.

Paul: Keep the questions coming in, keep your request for analysis coming in. Keep stalking us. Get your stalk on everybody.

Chris:We are on Twitter.Follow us on Twitter and follow and be our fan on Facebook.Stalk us, somehow.

Paul:Thanks, everybody, for listening.Oh, you know, I forgot to say this last week to Emily in the Philippines.I want to show my skill here.My Tagalog skill.Emily, this is especially for you.Mahal kita.Yes!

Chris: Awesome! Awesome!

Paul:That’s all that I know in Tagalog.

Chris:Oh, that’s awesome.

Paul:Apparently to the world knows that I love Emily Cal, ‘cause it means ‘I love you.’

Chris: All right!

Paul:That’s all I know.I’m sorry.

Chris:That’s the long-distance group hug!

Paul: To all our podcast listeners, “Mahal kita.” From e-webstyle.

Chris: Oh, all of them. All tens of them.

Paul:That’s right.

Chris: All right, guys. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. You can send us an email at a great podcast.We’re going to have another great one next week.Thank you for showing up.Until the next podcast.My name is Chris Burres.

Paul:And this is Paul Hanson.

Chris:Bye-bye for now.


Author: eweb-admin