Stay out of the Supplimental and Keyword Stuffing

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Unknown Secrets of SEO
Fourteenth SEO Podcast April 10th 2009.  Third page of Transcription

Paul Hanson: You know, the things, it’s a piggyback while we’re on the keywords, I like the tool. I know we’ve used so many I forget which is which, but being able to look at your particular keyword that you’re interested in and find out who the major player is, I think it’s on one of these screens.

Chris Burres: Oh yeah.

Paul Hanson: You can actually go and look up okay for plumber, Houston. Who are the major players? Who’s in first position? Who’s in second and who’s in third, and where am I? There, yeah, that’s it.

Chris Burres: That was it.

Paul Hanson: Okay.

Chris Burres: Who was it until we switched it, but I think that’s a great tool because then, you can find out who are the players for this particular keyword. You know the keywords. You’ve done your research by this point. You know which ones are important to you, which ones you’re going to go after.

Okay, who are the players for this particular keyword phrases, and then now, you can kind of go back and do analysis on their sites, and see, okay, what is his keyword frequency? Does he have it in a [0:19:43]? You can, I guess, do your film work and watch the film on his website, and see what’s he doing right, and potentially, not doing correct.

But I think that is a great tool just to be able to look and see who the major players are for this particular keywords because they’re obviously doing…if the guys are doing first page for that keyword, they’re obviously doing something right. I personally just don’t think that to get on the first page for big terms happens by accident.

Paul Hanson: No, no, no.

Chris Burres: It’s someone doing something right.

Paul Hanson: Yeah. There are really some smart decisions going on there.

Chris Burres: Which ironically is counter to have Google’s whole premises, which is the premises we’re supposed to be searching for people who aren’t tweaking for us, and we’re saying, “Okay, somebody who just puts up a page, what are they going to do?”

Well, they’re going to put the keyword in the title. That makes sense. They’re going to put the keyword in the header. That makes sense. They’re going to put the keyword some number of times in the body, and they’re going to have outgoing links that link to it and incoming links from it. All of that makes sense.

The reality is that when you do go out and just make a webpage, because we’ve seen our customers come to us all the time, it almost invariably doesn’t have any of that. Like none of those decisions are going on.

Paul Hanson: Of course. If you’re building a webpage, you’re not thinking should I put this keyword in the title tag?

Chris Burres: So you’re saying is…

Paul Hanson: What color do I want?

Chris Burres: So you’re a plumber and you write about your service, like on the front page of your service, your years of experience or whatever in it, and you’re three paragraphs into your page and you haven’t said plumbing once.

Paul Hanson: Yeah, of course.

Chris Burres: Right? And that kind of makes sense for you because you’re pitching. You’re thinking about who got you there, and that’s where searching and optimization comes in. We’re like, okay, this is great text. You got 3 paragraphs of why I should use you as my plumber, and at the end of the day, you don’t have the word plumber in the text, and Google’s not going to give you…

Paul Hanson: I’ll never get to your website because you didn’t put that in there.

Chris Burres: Exactly. So those things are really valuable, and on this, we’re actually looking at one report. This particular tool we’re using is an advanced web ranking. Very good tool. We use it for reporting. We use it for all sorts of things.

One of the nice things we can see here, and we monitor this on a regular basis. We can see that the website’s in position 8 and 9, on this particular keyword, key term in Google just popped into the page. So, the last time we ran this report, those 2 web pages were not on the top 10.

Paul Hanson: They weren’t on the first page, so if they’re a competitor of mine, the first thing I want to do is okay, what did this guy do?

Chris Burres: What are they doing different?

Paul Hanson: What is he doing?

Chris Burres: Yeah.

Paul Hanson: Because he obviously got to the first [0:22:35], and the guy in position seven, he bumped up one from position 8.

Chris Burres: Yeah.

Paul Hanson: So what are they changing? What are they doing that’s getting them that placement that put them on that first page? And you also want to be mindful that it’s always possible there is something like a breathing room.

Chris Burres: Uh hmm.

Paul Hanson: So, somebody in position 7 at this time, we’re on the report, and in a week, there maybe a 9 and then up to 5. There may be oscillating back and forth just as people make subtle changes.

Chris Burres: If I could just add a side note. You don’t want to copy exactly what other people are doing. If you are not an SEO professional or not in this industry, you may not know that the person ahead of you might be doing something that they shouldn’t be doing, and I’m referring to blackhead SEO.

Paul Hanson: Yeah, that’s a very good point.

Chris Burres: So you just don’t want to go if you’re the kind of person that can look at their source code, I’m just going to cut and paste and copy this here. They might be doing something they’re not supposed to be doing so be very careful. You want to do your research, but you just don’t want to take exactly what your competitors don’t because he might not, he could get you banned.

Paul Hanson: Yeah, absolutely. And there’s another thing that kind of pops in my mind. Wow, if all it takes to get on to the first page is this kind of proper ratio of title and header and keywords and all of that, why don’t I just take the webpage that has position 1, copy the entire webpage, rename it, put it on my site, and then, we’ll be good to go?

Chris Burres: The challenge with it. The challenge with that is you’ll end up in what’s called the supplemental because it’s identical texts.

Paul Hanson: That’s an awesome way to get into the supplemental.

Chris Burres: Yeah, exactly.

Paul Hanson: You don’t want to be…

Chris Burres: Directly to the supplemental.

Paul Hanson: So yeah, you don’t want to do that. Again though, there’s a lot of value in understanding what the competitors are doing and learning from them, so…

Chris Burres: I have an example. Last week, I was talking with a client about a website. They were interested in SEO, and I’m showing them a couple of different examples. This was a realtor, and at the bottom of this website…so, it’s a realtor out in Austin who had actually contacted us for about some SEO.

At the bottom of their website, I always see this in some realtors, they have stuffed just tons of keywords, Houston, Alabama, Austin, Dallas, and Sugarland, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it was in tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny text. You couldn’t read it either. You couldn’t paste it for someone to see it.

Now, she sees this and she goes, “Oh, look at all those keywords. I’m going to do that.” And not knowing about the industry, she just thought, “Hey, the more keywords, the better, and had I not been there to say, “You know, there’s a better way to…”

Paul Hanson: To do that.

Chris Burres: “To do that. There’s a better way to do optimization. Don’t just what you see other people do.” Now, Google may not consider that particularly keyword stuffing. Some search engine does. Some search engine don’t.

Paul Hanson: Well, there’s a fine line because, depending on the size of the text, and certainly the color of the text, they very well may have a problem with that.

Chris Burres: It was miniature, and I mean, it may have been like in a full 4 point font. It was tiny.

Paul Hanson: That can get you banned.

Chris Burres: And I saw that, and I was like, “Oh, you know, there’s a better way to do it. You don’t just want to copy what this person sees.” And that, to me, that was a classic example of why you want to have a professional company at least consulting with you. You’re not going to use a personal company, which I recommend, have someone consult with you and say hey, and just run ideas by him. “Hey, I want to stuff keywords. What do you think about that?”

“I want to try some blackhead techniques today. Let’s do that.” “Um, no. Let’s think about that.” No, you really don’t want to do that.

Paul Hanson: No, that’s a great example. And it was good that she was on the phone with you, and she was going over that because that could be disastrous. That literally could get you banned.

Chris Burres: Yeah.

Paul Hanson: Again, depending on size and color of the text, it is considered keyword stuffing.

Chris Burres: Now, in general, Google isn’t going to have a huge problem. They have software that will go out and say, “Okay, given these constraints, we want these people not on our list just because it’s clear that they’re using these kinds of techniques.

Now, if you escape that, and then one of your competitors complains because you are keyword stuffing or something, we find that Google will like, “Well, you know, they’re stuffing in irrelevant keywords.”

Paul Hanson: Uh hmm.

Chris Burres: It’s not like a porn site. It’s stuffing real estate terms at the bottom of the page.

Paul Hanson: Yeah.

Chris Burres: Trying to generate traffic that’s irrelevant to what they do. So in general, they’ll let that go by, but yeah, you’ve got to be really careful. There’s a lot of ways to get banned or thrown out of the site. Someone can report you. A competitor can, and I think we’ve said this a while back on a podcast. You might get away with it for a while.

Paul Hanson: That’ll be a long while. But when you get caught, getting out of the supplemental is a pain, and if you’re a website, if your business depends on your website to function, you are going to take a hit. So, I will definitely would recommend that.

Chris Burres: Anotehr way to look at it, if your growth and your business depended on Google, and you’re using any sort of blackhead techniques, you may last a year. Maybe throw in and cash in your pocket, and that’s great, and then, that day, when you get caught and you get banned, everything changes.

Paul Hanson: Right. They will cut you off. The 10 people you hired to support the business that Google was sending you, what are you going to do with them? Everything falls just totally apart if that’s your business.

Chris Burres: And you know, one thing that she did say to me when we were talking she goes, “Well, why can’t this guy do it and I can’t do it?” And my response was, “You know, if they say we’re going to band you, we’re going to band. They can do whatever they want.”

Paul Hanson: Right.

Chris Burres: Everyone wants to be on Google, and if the one guy gets away with it, and you want to do it, I mean, I don’t think it’s making sense, but you just don’t to do it. You don’t want to make Google mad.

Paul Hanson: Well, what you’re kind of saying is like, “Okay, when you’re speeding, and you’re 4 miles behind the guy who’s also doing 120…?”

Chris Burres: Yeah.

Paul Hanson: Who have ever done that? And it couples you over, and you go, “Why can he go about it?”

Chris Burres: Exactly.

Paul Hanson: Right, well, he just didn’t get caught.

Chris Burres: You got caught, you know.

Paul Hanson: Right. And you know you have no leg to stand on. You were doing that in 20. You might be going to jail.

Chris Burres: Exactly. You don’t want to make the cop man, and in this case, Google is the cop, you get caught, then you are going to suffer.

Paul Hanson: So, kind of in summary, definitely do your competitive analysis. Understand what they’re doing or just use us so we can do that for you.

Chris Burres: Uh hmm.

Paul Hanson: And be mindful that there are a lot of techniques that you might be trying to copy because it seems to be successful that are actually not good for you in the long run. They will actually end up getting your website banned.

Chris Burres: So it looks like we’re done with our podcast. Let’s remind them. If you’ve got any emails, send us any question. We’re getting questions. We’d love to hear feedback from you guys out there. We really appreciate you. You can send that feedback to

We do have another podcast. It’s not up yet, but it’s coming soon, and as the killer website design and development. We’re mowing him down with our AK 47

Paul Hanson: We’re going on war against ad web design.

Chris Burres: I like that. Going to war against bad web design. So that will be up soon, so keep an eye to that. Please subscribe to that. We love giving back to the community. We feel like we have a lot of valuable things to offer. Until the next podcast, I’m Chris Burres.

Paul Hanson: This is Paul Hanson. Bye-bye for now.

Author: eweb-admin